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    Poison Buff

    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

    Posts : 870
    Join date : 2017-09-13

    Character File
    Skills & Elements: Taijutsu | Sensory | Ninjutsu| Kenjutsu | Water | Lightning
    Class: X
    Ryo: 10,000

    Poison Buff Empty Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:31 pm

    Poison Buff:

    Poisons are perhaps one of the most underused systems on Gladius, and it's not too hard to see why. They cost a bit of ryo and requires somebody competent with the skill to produce. But in the end it seems a lot of the effort is in vain. The poison can be nulled by anybody with equal Constitution meaning somebody with B-tier Con is immune to poisons B-rank. This makes A/S rank poisons the only practical option to battle, with B-rank poisons only used on weak victims and poisons D - C being practically useless. My two suggestions are going to be:

    1.) Push the immunity up +2 tiers, so the Player must have two tiers higher than the poison's rank to actually be immune. In other words, Chad's C-rank poison has no effect on Brad's A-tier Con.

    2.) Add Resistance to the equation for poisons lower than the user's Constitution. Resistance applies to Poisons one rank lower. Resistance only doubles the Countdown time for Poison to take effect. So Chad's B-rank poison will still work on Brad's A-tier Con, however instead of taking 6 posts to go in effect it'll take 12 posts instead.


    It's a pretty big buff, but honestly I'm not too afraid. It makes poisons a useful combat tool which has been severely overlooked since Gladius' birth.


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Itaken
    Itaken

    Posts : 60
    Join date : 2017-09-17

    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Itaken Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:56 pm

    Just make it so equal rank poisons affect equal rank Con and lower. Making A rank poisons impossible to withstand is not a good way to balance poisons, but making it so that it hits at equal rank Con and lower puts it above what most other things can do. Techs of equal rank and of equal size generally cancel each other out assuming no strength/weakness to one or the other, so poisons hitting equal rank the same as lower ranks is a good perk.


    _________________
    Spoiler:


    Character Name: Itaken Senju
    Spendable Experience: 0
    Total Experience: 3100
    Renown: 3000
    Ryo: 50,000
    Stats:

    • Strength: D
    • Constitution: S (++ Senju)
    • Stamina: C (++ Senju)
    • Speed: E
    • Coordination: C
    • Intelligence: D
    • Perception: C

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    • Destiny: 1

    Link to Character Updates: https://gladiusnarutorp.forumotion.com/t2427-itaken-s-updates
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    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

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    Skills & Elements: Taijutsu | Sensory | Ninjutsu| Kenjutsu | Water | Lightning
    Class: X
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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:11 pm

    @Itaken wrote:Just make it so equal rank poisons affect equal rank Con and lower. Making A rank poisons impossible to withstand is not a good way to balance poisons, but making it so that it hits at equal rank Con and lower puts it above what most other things can do. Techs of equal rank and of equal size generally cancel each other out assuming no strength/weakness to one or the other, so poisons hitting equal rank the same as lower ranks is a good perk.

    I initially thought about going this route at first, but it still made poisons fairly weak. I didn't want to make it necessary for someone to have a Poison equal to their victim's Con because this makes Con immunity far too powerful and the vast majority of poisons useless against powerful characters, whether they have a B-tier in Con or S-tier.

    Someone with B-tier Con still very much takes damage from a C-rank Ninjutsu. When you consider how costly poisons are, their difficulty to make, and the trouble of inflicting someone with it makes the application of poisons highly difficult.

    There are ways to remedy Poisons, such as Ijutsu, Medicine, Enchantments, or Drugs for example. An A-rank Poison could be delayed with S-tier. The only poison that doesn't have resistances would be an S-rank poison, which is how it should be.


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

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    Skills & Elements: Taijutsu | Sensory | Ninjutsu| Kenjutsu | Water | Lightning
    Class: X
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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:34 am

    I feel S-tier Con has enough "oomph" already. Poison would stand to be its only weakness, which would be destroying the body from the inside and sabotage its internal workings as opposed to demolishing the person with brute force. Getting through someone with S-tier Con would require an S-tier weapon, which are very valuable and not common on Gladius. This also requires you to get a solid hit on your opponent. I feel Poison could afford to have some strengths. Seeing as an A-rank Poison, although effective, will still be resisted is plenty of a weakness.


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:55 pm

    B u m p s


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Kitsuki Kurahasa
    Kitsuki Kurahasa
    Genin

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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Kitsuki Kurahasa Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:55 pm

    I wasn't sold on point number 2 but I did like point 1 and I proposed it to staff. The measure did not pass Sad


    _________________
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    Stats:
    Strength: S
    Constitution: S
    Stamina: A
    Speed: C
    Coordination: C
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A


    Gear
    Quantum Meruit Armour [50/43]
    Amicus Curiae [20/20 Explosions] {Contained in Temporal Stasis via Angelic Return}
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    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:38 pm

    @Kitsuki Kurahasa wrote:I wasn't sold on point number 2 but I did like point 1 and I proposed it to staff. The measure did not pass Sad

    Any reasons or concerns as to why?


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Shimiko Chinoike
    Shimiko Chinoike
    Jounin

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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Shimiko Chinoike Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:58 am

    I beleive the concern was that it was too overpowered of a buff.


    _________________
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    Poison Buff P5_portrait_of_Anne_Takamaki27s_Phantom_Thief_outfit_without_mask



    Stats

    • Strength: D
    • Constitution: D
    • Stamina: A++
    • Speed: A
    • Coordination: S
    • Intelligence:  B
    • Perception: A


    Gear

    • 1x Kālīkoroshimasu
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    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:37 pm

    @Shimiko Chinoike wrote:I beleive the concern was that it was too overpowered of a buff.

    Overpowered is a huge misconception.

    Poison should be a natural counter against High Con. Constitution excels in external protection, which is seen in its perks (A-tier Con makes attacks B-rank and below almost nothing.) Poisons work by destroying and sabotaging the internal parts of an opponent which are naturally less protected since your body isn't trained to deal with poison unless you have a UA. So as opposed to defeating an opponent with S-tier Con by simply causing massive damage externally (which is an exhausting method) you have the opportunity to take them out easier with a Poison. Poisons should serve as a natural counter against High Con, just how Sensory is a solid counter against Genjutsu.

    Poisons also naturally have a process. Lets say you were trying to inflict Chad, S-tier Con, with an S-rank poison.

    You would first need a Chemist capable of making an S-rank poison, which means someone with Chemistry and S-tier Intelligence. That's already S-tier Stat vs. S-tier Stat which should be considered even on top of spending a large sum of ryo to make the poison.

    Next, you would still need sufficient penetration. So a weapon that is S-grade which requires a craftsman with A-tier Coordination and having worked up to crafting S-grade weapons. So once you have your weapon and poison, which is already a fairly large resource and skill investment, you have to actually hit your opponent. Which lord knows will be even less likely with the knowledge that the blade is coated in poison.


    But even on top of all of this the poison still have a countdown timer. An S-rank poison that destroys an organ takes 14 posts to actually go in effect which is a very long time for a fight and gives the victim opportunity to have it removed.


    Poisons are delayed gratification at its finest. The amount of material required is more than we've seen before, and the actual poison itself still takes time to set in. Crushing somebody's heart with Raikiri is a much straightforward option and currently a lot more rewarding than jumping through the hoops to make poisons happen. The buff is powerful because poisons need it.


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Naito
    Naito

    Posts : 34
    Join date : 2017-09-19

    Character File
    Skills & Elements: Ninjutsu, Kenjutsu, Weapon Smith, Wind Release
    Class: D
    Ryo: 0

    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Naito Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:19 pm

    My only point to add to this is that poisons should definitely not be save or die, but scaling effects. It makes more sense and makes them more fair. I personally subscribe to the notion that it should be

    Poison Resistance = Constitution = Resistance so half the normal effect or whatever

    Poison Immunity = Constitution + 1 Tier = Immunity.

    2 Tiers is way too high. Makes S rank invincible, and guess what some characters like Hashirama would not fall to a lame ass craftsmen's poison.


    _________________
    Stats/Skills:
    Strength: D
    Constitution: D
    Stamina: D (50 CP)
    Speed: C
    Coordination: D (+1 Tier UA)
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: C

    Kenjutsu, Wind Release, Crafting, Ninjutsu


    color=#9900ff
    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

    Posts : 870
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    Skills & Elements: Taijutsu | Sensory | Ninjutsu| Kenjutsu | Water | Lightning
    Class: X
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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:48 pm

    @Naito wrote:My only point to add to this is that poisons should definitely not be save or die, but scaling effects. It makes more sense and makes them more fair. I personally subscribe to the notion that it should be

    Poison Resistance = Constitution = Resistance so half the normal effect or whatever

    Poison Immunity = Constitution + 1 Tier = Immunity.

    2 Tiers is way too high. Makes S rank invincible, and guess what some characters like Hashirama would not fall to a lame ass craftsmen's poison.

    Poisons are really just debuffs. It takes an S rank poison to really kill anybody above Genin. Immunity should be saved for those with extremely high Con, and that's for lesser poisons.

    Con offers a lot already. S tier Con let's you walk away from tech B rank and below. A rank techs do minor damage. There needs to be legitimate avenues to fight against high Con and poison should be among those. Otherwise i feel Con becomes too meta


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Irui Mikiri
    Irui Mikiri

    Village : Kumogakure
    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2019-04-24

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    Skills & Elements: Lightning Release, Dark Release, Nin, Gen, Summ., Sensor
    Class: D
    Ryo: 0

    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Irui Mikiri Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:38 pm

    I fully support a poison buff. Every site I've ever played on has always made poison incredibly weak and underwhelming. We need something to counterbalance players that prefer to use close-quarters combat, and overwhelming durability. It just makes sense.

    Lets test it. If it doesn't work out we can always adjust.


    _________________
    Info:

    Character Name: Irui Mikiri
    Spendable Experience: 1915
    Total Experience: 4035 / 6500 (A to S class)
    Ryo: 50,000
    Current Stats:
    Strength: D
    Constitution: B (+2 (w/ JI) | S
    Stamina: C (+2 (w/ JI) | A
    Speed: B (++ w/JI) | B++
    Coordination: B
    Intelligence: B
    Perception: B

    Jashinist Immortality

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    Hana Kaguya
    Hana Kaguya
    Mizukage

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    Class: X
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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Hana Kaguya Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:42 am

    Irui wrote:I fully support a poison buff. Every site I've ever played on has always made poison incredibly weak and underwhelming. We need something to counterbalance players that prefer to use close-quarters combat, and overwhelming durability. It just makes sense.

    Lets test it. If it doesn't work out we can always adjust.


    I would like to say additionally with the newest limitation on debuffs (a single stat cannot be debuffed more than 2 tiers) really hampers with a poison's overall flexibility. Before, poisons could potentially paralyze or kills characters through debuffing stats by forcing them to hit zero. Now that option is thrown out the window as using this method requires the victim to have an E or D tier stat.

    It had recently been made clear to me that Poisons are capable of doing more than debuff stats, and that debuffing stats shouldn't be its MO, but I feel that's even more of a reason to buff Poisons. By "balancing" its stat debuffing potential there should be little fear in improving the effectiveness of poisons allowing them to become viable Fighting Styles. Yes, Poisons are a fighting style and should be treated as such. Below is going to be my "quick and dirty" of the buff I, and I'm sure many poison users, would like to see:


    Poison Immunity should require the victim to have +1 tier in Con above the poison in question. This means in order to be immune to a C-rank poison the Constitution of the victim would have to be B-tier. Although I feel this still makes poison fairly weak considering any other fighting style doesn't work like this I can understand that Poisons do not cost any chakra and can be infinite is a fight as long as the chemist has enough $$$. That being said, anybody with Ijutsu can create poison-based Ijutsu technique (Shizune's Poison Mist stuff) that could be more efficient in battle.

    To compliment this buff these following changes should go in effect:

    D-rank:
    Countdown: 1 posts
    Duration: 4 posts

    C-rank:
    Countdown: 1 - 2 posts
    Duration: 4 - 8 posts

    B-rank:
    Countdown: 1 - 2 posts
    Duration: 6 - 10 posts

    A-rank:
    Countdown: 2 - 3 posts
    Duration: 6 - 12 posts

    S-rank:
    Countdown: 2 - 3 posts
    Duration: 10 - 16 posts


    Following these new numbers there should be more readily available ways to counteract poison that doesn't require medicine or an Ijutsu user:

    Grain Alcohol: Remember seeing that in the shop? It mainly served an RP function of "cleaning wounds to prevent infection." Instead it can be re-purposed for cleaning a wound inflicted with Liquid Poison to remove the poison. However, this must be within the countdown before its spreads to the victim's bloodstream.

    Blood Loss: Remember that cool stunt Naruto did to remove the poison from the Demon Brothers? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Now, a substantial wound over the infected site can now remove poison. This must be within the Countdown before the poison takes effect. The wound and damage is up to staff discretion.

    Amputation: Remembe- nevermind. I'm sure it's obvious, but it should be made clear that removing a part of your body where poison is inflicted during the countdown phase will prevent the poison from spreading. It's not ideal, but sometimes a loss limb is better.

    A-tier Con: Lastly with these new countdowns I feel A-tier Con or higher should double the current countdowns to represent Con's overall resistance to foreign contaminants.


    There are dozens more, such as Fuuinjutsu and certain Ninjutsu, but I feel this covers the unskilled ways of countering poison. Overall I feel this makes poison seem less scary by showcasing remedies while also improving it to battle-readiness.

    In the future I will post a new guide for poisons as well following the recent revelation that "poisons are more than stat debuffs." I feel a guide should show its potential, and currently all I'm seeing are debuffs.


    _________________
    Stats:
    Strength: B
    Constitution: A (A++ Physical)
    Stamina: A (S w/Demon Bell)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A+
    Intelligence: D
    Perception: A
    Q
    Q

    Posts : 133
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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Q Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:30 am

    I agree with this and am putting it on staff docket to discuss and vote for.
    Chigetsu
    Chigetsu

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    Poison Buff Empty Re: Poison Buff

    Post by Chigetsu Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:06 am

    Looks good to me


    _________________
    Character Sheet:

    Character Name: Chigetsu Hozuki
    Spendable Experience: 1240
    Total Experience: 6560
    Renown: 2,650
    Ryo:  433,650
    Stats:

    • Strength: D
    • Constitution: C
    • Stamina: A+
    • Speed: A
    • Coordination: A
    • Intelligence: B
    • Perception: A

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