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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Uchiha Akihiro
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:49 pm

    "Seid Otsusuki." Akihiro couldn't helo but raise an eyebrow at this particular Genin's last name. Could it be possible? The Otsutsuki wasn't hugely known around the world, but Akihiro had learned quite a bit from Zurui about this special clan and their prowess. Then again, when Akihiro looked at Seid he saw nothing of Zurui's power. Seid's eyes also looked perfectly normal...perhaps Otsutsuki was a more common name than he had realized. Alas, it didn't matter. He was not here to admire Genins and their potential genes, he was here to test them. And so he pushed bloodline thoughts away from his mind.

    With a hand motion, Akihiro signaled Seid to enter the door. "If you would please enter."

    Once again the door would open to let a Genin inside the strange room, and close behind him. This time, our Genin would find himself in a tent. In front of him, sat on a chair behind a table, was a woman with strange markings on her body, although the most visible ones were on her forehead. The was also an empty chair in front of her across the table- This one was meant for Seid. In her left hand, the woman held a glowing crystal ball.

    Seid's test - The Drowning Child 26169dffb4973518d05b0e6b3c1ba5e5

    "Come child, have a seat. I will be testing you today... Seid Otsutsuki, right? You're a curious one. Ah...let's see..." She would wait for Seid to have a seat, and then she would place the crystal ball on its stand, between the two of them. A few hand motions, and the crystal ball would begin to glow even more. After a few seconds, it would show an image.

    It was Seid. He was going out Kumogakure no Sato's gates. "Look....that is you. You're leaving for a mission, do you see?" she would wait for his reply and then proceed. "I know a lot about you, Seid. I know you have a very strong sense of justice...of what is right...and what is wrong. So tell me...that child." She would point at the crystal ball yet again. On the ball's image, Seid was passing by a shallow pound while in route for his mission debriefing. "That small child fell in and appears to be in difficulty in the water. Look, she is crying in distress and it seems is at risk of drowning! But you are a shinobi...srong, and fast so you can easily go in and pull the child out of the water. But... although you won't be hurt if you rescue the child, you will get your clothes wet and muddy, which means you'll have to go to the village to change, and likely you'll be late for your mission. So tell me, by your own sense of justice and moral obligation... do you have a moral obligation to rescue the child? Yes or no? Answer quickly, else she drowns and you fail..."
    Seid
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Seid on Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:39 pm

    Seid was finally called up. He had seen Genin exited without mercy. These people weren't playing around, but he was a native of Kumo so he was well aware. However their proctor was the one that caught his attention. He was barely younger than himself, and yet he was running the operations for an entire Chuunin exams. He walked by and gave a slight nod of respect. It seems the ninja in hidden village in the Leaf were either promoting very young. Or that boy was very capable of himself. The Konoha nin showed him the way and told him to enter.

    Steeling himself against the unknown, he walked in through the door. He was led into a tent strangely enough. The door closed behind him and there was a mysterious lady inside with a crystal ball. Strange... was the only word that seemed to come to mind at the moment. He sat down across from her and she began to speak to him. She even said she knew a lot about him, his righteous stand for whats right and wrong.

    And asked him a question that would challenge that very moral. It was about abandoning a child to die, in order to get on time for a mission. He had his answer the moment he heard it from her. "Yes I would save the child," he said immediately. "I could not call myself a Shinobi if I left the child to die. It is my duty and my honor to lay down my life for those in need. There is no price we do not pay for that."


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    Uchiha Akihiro
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:12 pm

    "Good. You believe yourself to have strong sense of justice, I know. And that seems as if it must be the right answer. But we have yet to see if what you believe about yourself is true. After all, literally everyone who went through the black door to find me gave the exact same answer you gave me. Let's see then..." The woman made a few gestures with her hands and the image in the crystal ball changed a bit. The scenario was roughly the same, there was Seid and there was a drowning child. But more than that, there were a few people around. People whose faces he wouldn't know.

    "Look now Seid. Now there are other people walking past who would equally be able to rescue the child but are not doing so. There must be a reason for that, no? Or perhaps not... perhaps they're just selfish or simply do not care. Who am I to judge them....I'm here to judge you. Does the fact that they are not doing what ought to be done mean that you're no longer obligated to save the child, Seid?"



    Seid
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Seid on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:31 pm

    The answer Seid gave for mysterious woman seemed to please her. However she mentioned that was an easy conclusion as other Genin gave similar answers like his. She then added an additional piece to the scenario that changed the script.

    Though the answer came to him as quick as his first thought. "No matter the situation. It is not their job to rescue the child. Why others did not act will be tended to after the child is safe. My obligations are to the citizens until ordered otherwise. " Seid replied with vigor. Hoping hus answers were up to par.


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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:28 pm

    "Your obligations are to the citizens? Ahahahaha that's a good one." the woman genuinely laughed, but there was no ill intent in her laughter, just...amusement. "But which citizens? Those from Kumogakure? What if I were to tell you that child is from Konohagakure no Sato, then what would you say?" She would wait for him to give an answer and then proceed with the test.

    " Alright Seid, let's recap what's going on here. You have come across a small child who having gotten into difficulty in a shallow pond is crying in distress and possibly at risk of drowning. You have accepted you have a moral obligation to rescue the child even though by doing so you will muddy your clothes. The issue we're now looking at is whether your obligation to help might be cancelled in particular circumstances." The woman smirked. This was where the test began to be more difficult.

    The image on the ball changed slightly, but the presence of the drowning child and Seid was the same. The people around them had changed to have new faces and looks, as well as different clothes.

    " We are now introducing an element of uncertainty. You know you're not going to come to any harm if you attempt the rescue, but you can't be sure that your efforts will make any difference to how things turn out. This is partly for the counterfactual reason that if you don't intervene, then it is possible that somebody else will do so, thereby bringing about the same result. And it is partly because it is possible that by the time you reach the child, it will already be too late.

    So tell me Seid. Does the fact that you don't know whether or not your efforts will make a difference relieve you of your moral obligation to save the child?

    It is important to be clear about the precise situation here. You have good reason to suppose that your intervention will bring about a better outcome than would otherwise be the case, but you can't be sure about it. The question is - does this element of uncertainty mean you're no longer obliged to go ahead with the rescue attempt?"
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Seid on Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:17 pm

    Seid nodded his head as listened to lady become amused with his answers. Asking him would he still feel the same even if the child was from Konohagakure. "They aren't our enemies, as of now. So I'll give benefit of the doubt that the child still needs help regardless of where it comes from." The boy felt that a kid he wasn't much older than, would want any and all help. That's what he would want if he was faced with the same situation.


    But the lady had a curve ball for him. The scenario changed to a point where if he would intervene it probably wouldn't matter anyways. However the Otsusuki was prepared for this saying, "My obligation remains the same, as a ninja we are faced with these decisions almost everyday. Situations may defer, but the goal remains that we protect the lives given to us to protect. Despite all of that, I would still go help. I can provide further aid and give the child proper resuscitation less something goes awry." Seid felt his response was good because it was truthful. It was how he honestly felt.


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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:04 pm

    "Ah I see, I see. You truly are a knight in shining armor, hmm? But nearly every boy is at your age. It is only when you get older and experience the real difficulties of life that most if not all of you abandon your shining armor and stop being knights. Indeed, the lives you lead at your villages usually beat the knighthood out of you...and those who survive that become fine shinobi and kunoichi. A shinobi is not a knight Seid, you'd do well to remember that.

    Alas, some things can only be learned by experience. I'm sure you too will learn in due time.

    Anyway, that seems as if it's got to be the correct answer according to your standards. If there is a moral obligation to help the child, it would be very odd to think this disappears just because we can't be absolutely certain any particular intervention will be beneficial, particularly if we have good reason to think that actually it will be beneficial."
    The woman made small movements with her fingers and the image on the crystal ball began to change once again. Every time the change would be minimal but of fundamental importance to the scenario at hand. This time, Seid was carrying a spear with him.

    " It so happens that you find yourself carrying a spear. Its only drawback is that it is impossible to swim or use the water walking technique while in possession of the spear. Now the pond is located in a forest where you know a gang of weapon thieves operates. You don't have time to safe-keep your spear, and you know that if you leave it, even briefly, to rescue the child, there's a good chance that it'll be stolen. It's a battered old spear, it doesn't hold any particular sentimental value to you, and you can easily replace it. Does the possibility your spear will be stolen while you're saving the child mean you're no longer obliged to go ahead with the rescue?"

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    Post by Seid on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:58 am

    Seid listened intensively to mysterious lady. The way she was able to weave his likeness into the crystal ball as she explained his scenario, was eerie. She spoke to him of his shining knight demeanor. That Shinbi were different, they would could called to do things no Knight could. Seid would have his fair life with those decisions, in due time. He nodded with appreciation of the advice. But the lady was not done, she conjured another scenario with a different piece. In this one he had a spear, his only weapon in an area ravaged by bandits. They also had quick hands and the all likely hood of the spear being stolen was high.

    The young Genin frowned as he said, "The spear will have to left behind. It makes it more of a hindrance than a tool if it limits my abilities so. They can have the weapon, as the child will still need to be saved. I trust my own abilities to get the child safely out of there as well." Seid was confident that he could use some of his ninjutsu to even the playing field if he needed to. As a Genin he was prepared to face these situations. He was very experience for a Genin in that manner.


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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:42 pm

    The woman smiled. It was hard to tell whether hers was a sympathetic smile or she had a secret hiding behind her mysterious figure. "You truly are quite something. I wonder if one of these days your gallant attitude will bring you trouble. The Knight Paradox... being virtuous at every step of your journey may eventually kill you. But not being so prevents you from becoming a true hero. Alas, perhaps that is why we have yet to see any real change in your world, for the better..." She made a pause, contemplating the crystal ball for a few minutes, deeply pondering whether or not to pass this young Genin. Passing him in his current state could lead to him dying in the future but... if this was his true nature, she had no right to stop him here.

    " Well Seid. I have three final questions for you. Still regarding this drowning child you wish to save so much.

    First, let's imagine that this is not the first time you've come across a child struggling in an expanse of water and seemingly at risk of drowning. In fact, only last week on your way home from a mission you heard cries as you passed by a local reservoir and when you investigated you found that a young boy had fallen in and was struggling to drag himself out. Happily, he was quite near to dry land, so you were able to reach into the water and pull him out, albeit you did ruin your work shirt in the process.

    Does the fact you saved a child's life last week mean you're not obliged to go ahead with the rescue this week?
    Yes, or No?

    Second question,
    It's possible that you're not aware that in the Land of Lightning, drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury/death for children aged 1 to 14 years. Does the fact that saving this particular child's life won't contribute towards solving the more general problem of water safety mean that you're not obligated to save the child after all?
    Yes, or No?

    And finally, I have one final question based on this scenario. Would it make any difference if the child were far away, in another country perhaps, but similarly in danger of death, and equally within your means to save, at no great cost – and absolutely no danger – to yourself?
    Would you still save this child?"


    The woman glared at Seid. His test was near its ending, but the final answers still needed to be given.
    Seid
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Seid on Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 pm

    Yet again the lady was either amused or bemused by his answers. She appeared witty as she had another version of events ready to play out for him. Taking a lasting look at her crystal ball, she began to ask him a few more questions. The first one he was ready for as it played in all of his answers as well. "No it doesn't. Any problem that occurred when I saved someone last week would not stop me the next week. Or any other week for that matter. Those would be minor inconveniences."

    The second question was a nice information to know, however it was only information that was passive. As it would not change his motives.  "I would say no. General information like this would not sway motives. There are no rules in place to say otherwise. The obligation would still remain as well."

    The last question though it was final, was more simple in nature. At first glance that was. "I believe I would still help the child. Generally I wouldn't let a child suffer in such a way if I was able to do something about it." Seid said answering the questions as best as he could.
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:00 pm

    The woman smiled. There was a trace of comprehension in her eyes and expression, but it was still a bit hard to tell why she smiled like this. Could Seid have walked right into a trap? Well, more or less.

    "Good, that's a pleasing response, especially if one takes into account that the idea that we have a greater moral obligation towards those who are local to us - our fellow country people, for example - than to those who are far away is not uncommon (albeit it is hard to justify).

    As you know, we live times of turmoil. The shinobi age is one, unfortunately, infested with wars and Belic conflicts. While it isn't true that the leading cause of infant death in our continent is drowning, it certainly is true that in many places it is malnourishment and other consequences of wars. Seid, I come from the Land of Earth. A plague devastated the land a few years back, and the Land of Fire took the opportunity to seize and control Iwagakure and its surroundings- It's war.

    But we're not here to discuss the war and the plague. We're here to discuss the consequences of such events. And its consequences are dying adults and children due to these circumstances. Now Seid...I have your exam results. But before I reveal them to you... I will ask you whether or not you're willing to make donations to these people.  Frequently. Under your own terms and the answers you gave me today."


    The woman's smile turned into a smirk, similar to that of a viper which had caught its prey. She did warn Seid that his knightly attitude could get him into trouble one day, and now here she was making a move for his wallet. In all fairness, the woman did not lie a single time during their meeting. It was true that the Land of Earth was going through struggles. And it was true that there were people starving in that country.

    She placed an envelope on the table. Notably, it was closed.

    "Your exam results. I wrote them down before you got here. I'm a seer, after all."


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    OOC information:

    This activity is based on a thought experiment devised by Peter Singer that aims to show that if there is a moral obligation to rescue a drowning child (without sacrificing anything morally significant - i.e., at no great cost to the rescuer), then there is also a moral obligation to make a small donation to an overseas aid agency. As Singer puts it,

    Peter Singer wrote:we are all in that situation of the person passing the shallow pond: we can all save lives of people, both children and adults, who would otherwise die, and we can do so at a very small cost to us: the cost of a new CD, a shirt or a night out at a restaurant or concert, can mean the difference between life and death to more than one person somewhere in the world – and overseas aid agencies like Oxfam overcome the problem of acting at a distance.
    This activity translates some of the objections that people raise against this sort of argument into the language of the drowning child scenario (more of which in a moment), and then uses your responses to each variation of the scenario to determine whether these objections are available to you, and on this basis calculates whether you should judge yourself morally obliged to make a donation within the next few days (assuming, that is, that you accepted that you had a prima facie obligation to rescue the drowning child).
    Seid
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    Seid's test - The Drowning Child Empty Re: Seid's test - The Drowning Child

    Post by Seid on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:38 pm

    The Seer spoke to him and said he was response was good. Also including the story on the Iwagakure and its coming struggles. That she originated from the land. He could feel something for her story as he was from a different land as well. Albeit a different world and dimension. But it seemed the exam was coming to a close as Seid heard the Seer ask if he wanted to donate to the Iwagakure cause. He thought about it for a few seconds.

    Of course he didn't mind but he was always thought that some of thta money was funneled into someone else bank. But he answered, "Sure. I don't mind donating." He had plenty of money that he didn't know what to do with. Here in this world it was important but it only suited some of his needs. He reached over and grabbed the results and opened the envelope.


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    Uchiha Akihiro
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    Post by Uchiha Akihiro on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:35 pm

    The woman chuckled. It wasn't like she was making fun of him, but she found him sort of..."Adorable. You're an adorable little child. But I must re-state my advice to you: Be careful with your own words. There are times to be kind, and there are times to be smart. I could technically make you pay a monthly fee with the answers you gave me...

    Now I realize that may be your nature. But as a shinobi you must hone your instincts. A kind man is only good for the world as long as he's alive. Now take your test results and go. There are others I must see."
    She made another pause and stared once again into the crystal ball. She was seeing Seid's future, it seemed. A smirk appeared on her lips, and she licked them with her tongue before interrupting Seid's exit with another phrase.

    "Oh, and Seid? Your future is bright. Just...heed my advice. And don't forget about me." She winked. Should Seid open his envelope, he would discover that he had passed this round of the Chuunin Exams.
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    Post by Seid on Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:24 pm

    The lady was very strange, but Seid liked her. She had taken to giving him some hearty advice with his nature. He had a lot to learn and to taken upon himself since he came to this dimension. It was a different world since he knew that held people of incredible calibers. Even in his own dimension he was held to a different standard. Almost royalty to his people because of his birthright. She also looked into the crystal ball almost seeing into his own future. She mentioned that he had a bright future ahead of him. And that to look out for her. He nodded his head and looked at his results from the envelope, he passed this round. Excellent.

    [Exit]


    _________________
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      Current date/time is Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:11 am