First of all I wanna give props to Marcus for so eloquently stating the conclusions we arrived to in chat yesterday.
Now on to the subjects at hand:
I don't want to ban custom entities but honestly they've become a problem that takes away from the fun of the game and from the theme of a Naruto role-playing site. There are several solutions to this problem but the most obvious one is banning the registration of custom entities. Especially considering how easy it is to gain experience nowadays.
I'd frankly feel more comfortable with simply removing the ability of registering custom entities. Perhaps not removing them
from people who already registered and have them, but I do think we shouldn't allow any more registrations.
Nyg wrote:I am totally against banning custom entities. The whole point of roleplaying Naruto imo is to create custom characters, with custom jutsu, with custom items, in a custom setting. Its what separates our characters from those in canon. Granted we want to stay as close to the theme as possible, but I don't think that forecloses the possibility of having custom entities. I agree they are difficult to balance but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. The Bijuu system gives a great general guide to the power that an entity is supposed to have and its up to staff to use their judgment to evaluate which deviations are appropriate. Seeing all of the amazing things we have accomplished on this site, I do not believe for one second that that is a task beyond us as a community.
I completely understand the appeal of registering custom naruto elements. But there are several problems with this in the case of entities.
The first one is perhaps the less serious but one that bothers me personally. There's a fundamental difference between entities and the other things you mentioned. And that difference is that there's no way to force an entity to be Naruto themed.
Think about it. Jutsu will always need hand-seals and chakra, characters have stats and skill points that automatically set their theme as ninjas, and the setting well... the setting is a Naruto one by nature. But in theory there's absolutely nothing preventing me from registering Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny as an entity and just rolling with it. Or registering a zanpakutou as an entity, or Exodia or...well, you get my point.
And that bothers me. I play on Gladius because it's a naruto themed site, and I like the canon lore. And in the canon lore, Bijuus are a fundamental key part of what motivates actions in this universe. I mean Bijuu were literally the driving force behind most if not all actions taken by the major characters in Naruto. Akatsuki, the main character, the village wars, the shinobi world war, etc. Bijuu always played a key role in these things. Which leads us to the second problem.
The fact that you can register custom entities at will not only makes Bijuu effectively less powerful
, but it basically throws them into the backroom and makes them completely and utterly irrelevant to the setting and geopolitical scenario of our Naruto Universe
. Why should a village fight for the possession of Bijuu? Or for sealing them? The easiest and most obvious solution is to grind its characters and eventually have them register something just as powerful. There's no risk involved either.
Getting a Bijuu is really a bad idea. The only reason to get one is if you like the site lore and naruto setting to the point of putting yourself at a disadvantage like that.
Tamwyn wrote:These experiences has generally involved the 'old guard' (It doesn't necessary have to be a member who's been around longer but I'm using the term for the sake of simplicity) constantly able to curb stomp those weaker than them with their shiny stronger stuff and making the entire experience less fun for others.
I don't think this is a problem. Like Xurious said, the key to being able to do this is teamwork.
None of what I would consider Gladius' 'old guard' characters are constantly curbing characters weaker than them. But even if they were...There is no character on this site, X-class or not, that can stand and win against the simultaneous assault of 3 or 4 A/S-classes for the simple fact that they'll be outlasted and outmaneuvered in battle. The way our systems work gives numbers a massive advantage. Either through a larger collective stamina pool or the ability to perform several actions simultaneously. Entities are strong, but they're not gods (well, some are but you get my point).
Tamwyn wrote:Or are any of you about to tell me that you wouldn't benefit from an S++ shield, 8 UQ tiers, access to another stamina pool, regeneration, a giant chakra guard beast, a giant transformation, and an automatic genjutsu safety net isn't going to help your build to an astounding degree?
I mean I would.
But I would benefit more
if I could get all of this and choose where to allocate those 8UQ tiers
on top of that. Or if I could swap the Genjutsu immunity for another thing since my character is already strong with Genjutsu or has a Sharingan. And that's the whole point.
Nobody is saying Bijuu are useless. We're saying Bijuu become irrelevant
when custom entities enter the fray. They're effectively a worse
choice for any character when they should be key and central pieces
in any Naruto universe. And on top of this as you correctly pointed out: Their control fights are many times harder.
Tamwyn wrote:This is supposed to be a fun environment, a game, collaborative writing in an anime universe we know and love. Isn't giving everyone access to similar things conducive to that?
I think Marcus addressed this quite nicely on point 4:
Entities are supposed to be special, unique things that are a village's secret weapon. They were supposed to be what turned the tide of battle, the thing that everyone wanted to work for to attain. Now, everyone gets one of them. While that sounds like a fair endgame, it's the equality of opportunity that should be pushed.
Tamwyn wrote:Which is rather than nerfing custom entities or outright removing them, why not give those with the Canon Bijuu a bit of 'oomph' not in so much as a massive buff, but perhaps an overhaul in some of their restrictions.
I strongly disagree
with this. Bijuus don't need buffs, and they were already hard enough to balance. The irrelevance of Bijuu doesn't come from lack of fire power, it comes from lack of tailored fire power/perks
. Buffing Bijuu would only lead to more Super Saiyan fights.
If we're going to do this, we should do this as fast as possible in my opinion.
Nyg wrote:people who have RPed here for many months and years are now getting close to their S/X Class Restricted and I don't want to cut them off without advanced warning.
I understand the frustration but the alternative to this would be either:
a)letting them have a restricted and then remove it which is arguably worse
b)Letting them have restricted and keep it, increasing the number of nukes going around the site.
Nyg wrote:Therefore, I think there is value in keeping the current system in play.
The problem is that the more time the current system remains in play the worse the problem gets and the harder it becomes to solve it. From a pragmatic point of view, it's obvious that people will power up a lot with the war and the number of nukes going around will only rise with time. There will always be people close to S/X-rank and we will always be cutting people right before the so called "finish line". The only question is how many people will have crossed / be close to crossing before we implement this. The more we wait, the worse it gets.
Nyg wrote:I also think it works thematically. The plot on Gladius has been alluding to a cataclysmic event since we started. Many things have been leading up to something like this: Hagoromo's Comet, the Assault on the Blood Prison, the Rise of the Society.... all of these events have pointed in this direction for months. I kinda see it as Entities realizing Earth is ground-zero for a major event and they are choosing their champions left and right to secure their interests.
I think it's a bit unfair to reduce the "plot on Gladius" to those events. And it's unreasonable to make decisions based on that assumption.
I mean don't get me wrong, some of those were great and very entertaining.
But the plot of Gladius is the plot started by its community and role-played by its characters. All of those were either events, quests or storylines started entirely by staff and with settings entirely decided by staff. I don't think it's fair to make decisions based on the assumption that that is the main plot of Gladius o.o
The juice of the plot of Gladius to me is like...when Lei attacked Kiri and caused a diplomatic incident, or the Chuunin Exams, or when Alkaid planned an assassination which has had tremendous repercussions up to this day, Nozomi making the decision to declare war upon the world, taking suna, Ei making a stand, when a bunch of people decided to rebuild Iron, Stacks declaring a Neko empire,etc etc. I just think PC on PC plot should be considered, and in fact considered more valuable to defining a "theme" of gladius.
I don't know, I just don't think the "theme" of gladius should be used to justify delaying this fix especially when the problem gets worse with time.
I think fixing experience rates and class caps could help a lot. I'm glad to see people wanting the experience gains to be lowered back to their original values but I'd go one step further.
Do you know why everyone running around with nukes wasn't a problem before? Or why S/X-class characters were rarer?
Because these were the original values to hit a new class:
Then we moved to:
Current values wrote:C: 1000
We made it super easy
to class up, and on top of that we increased experience gains.
Looking at these system values it's only natural that we're all tempted to find a quick posting partner and just grind up classes. It looks achievable in a matter of months.
Before, it took years to reach X-class. And that was okay, and normal.
It had several benefits:
- Restricteds were gained either through quests or other IC means.
- The fact that it was so hard to hit X-class meant that people didn't rush towards it.
- Players enjoyed the journey instead of being fixated on ultimate power at X-class.
- Fights were more interesting because people needed to be clever with their limited arsenal.
- The goal wasn't to hit X-class ASAP just to be able to compete. The goal was to enjoy the journey and write a meaningful story knowing you could still compete with others of your rank who were doing the same.
- We had ninja, not Saiyans.
Guys, seriously. Genin suck
. And that's fucking great.
There is no better feeling than registering a shit character and role-play them slowly getting stronger over the years. It's great to be shit together with other Genin. It's great to have a limited arsenal and seeing what you can do with it.
I know it sounds suspicious to be hearing this from the guy who has an X-class, but some of my favorite rping times with Akihiro happened when he was a Genin, believe it or not. And if we returned to the original values Akihiro would revert to S-class. And often times I've found myself enjoying writing Shiro (my current Genin) posts more than I did Aki's. Because Shiro sucks and has no responsibilities nor does anyone expect much from him. And that's great.
Nowadays it's far too easy to class up. Hell, you can probably class up to A-rank from C-rank within a single Chuunin Exam. Walk into that thing a naruto, walk out a kakashi.
If role-playing a Genin isn't your thing you always had the option to register a Jonin which would start at B-class and wouldn't suck as much, but would still take quite a bit of effort to become polished and become a super great shinobi.
Guys the main goal isn't to hit X-class. The goal is to enjoy the journey there and seeing what you can do with the few things you have. Hitting X-class is just a consequence of that journey.
Nyg wrote:I think getting a custom Restricted should require lots of hard work. I'd say maybe a minimum of a year and lots of character development, plot participation, and just good roleplaying in a way that helps the site.
I completely agree
and the funny thing was that this is what we used to have. Giving someone an Entity at X-class made perfect sense, because with the values we had it meant reaching that exp value most likely implied year and lots of character development, plot participation, and just good roleplaying in a way that helps the site
. We were rewarding people for that.
However...We made the rule of giving people an entity at X-class but we forgot how easy we made it to hit X-class at the same time.
We don't need a "minimum amount of years on site to be given entity" rule. It's okay to give an entity at X-class as long as the values for X-class are actually high.
I urge you all to consider raising the experience requirements for classing up to what they were and keeping the Restricted Claim at X/S-rank.